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Use of human cadavers as crash test dummies?

by Jillian @ http://blueshelled.com . May 29, 2009 . 1:56PM

Back in the 1990s there was a song by a group called The Crash Test Dummies and the main lyrics were “mmm mmm mmm mm mmm mmm mmm,” which was sung in a monotone voice. I kind of feel that way after watching a live link video that discusses how human cadavers that were donated to science are used in many ways that the public is unaware. In this case, they are being used to develop safer vehicles, which I think is great, but the family is not notified that their body will be abused, which seems unethical to me, in many ways. Take a look at the video and we can talk more about this.

The controversy over the practice is that the bodies, once turned over to science, have no guarantees as to what type of “science” they will be used to test. Many people make the assumption that the body will go towards the furthering of medical students education, some kind of cancer/terminal illness research or something that the deem equally changing for all of humanity. The idea that their loved one could end up further broken due to testing car standards has people appalled and angry.

My opposition to this stems from all of those ideas as well as the idea of desecration of a person once they are gone. We have other means of testing these vehicles and we use them. If a person knows that their body is going to this purpose, I believe that is one idea that is fine. If they have no idea that they will be further used to this extent, it opens a whole other can of worms.

What are your thoughts? If this was your loved one and you had donated their body to science, would you be ok with the practice?

Jillian

Filed under: Ethical questions,death,human interest,research,youtube | Tags: controversy regarding use of human cadavers, death, human cadavers, human interest, research, The Crash Test Dummies, using human cadavers for crash testing, youtube

16 Comments

Neil_Stevens says:

May 29, 2009 at 3:48 pm

People donate their bodies to save lives. I personally don’t see why cut up for spare parts, or cut up for the sake of being cut up by students, is more acceptable than safety testing.

A whole lot of people die in car accidents every year. This stuff matters, and the more realistic your testing can be, the better you can use that testing to design safer cars.
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:01 pm

How is a dead body more realistic than some of the robotic bodies they are making? Obviously, the most realistic is a live body and some of the robots they are making can almost duplicate those functions without desecrating the dead bodies.
Neil_Stevens says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:05 pm

Why is it desecrating a body to perform on it what the person’s last request was: to have his body used to save lives?

I mean, is it dignified to get cut up by a group of yawning 22 year olds who are checking their watches to see how long until lunch?

Maybe, maybe not. But it’s what the person wanted done with his body. By donating it, the person is saying “It’s not me anymore. Make use of it, no matter how weird or disgusting. Cut me up, throw parts of me away. Do what helps. Use your best judgement.”

If you want to argue that these experiments don’t help, that’s one thing. But desecration for a greater purpose is effectively what these people are asking to have done to their bodies, so I don’t really think it’s a useful objection.
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:26 pm

You have some really great points. I need to carefully consider what you said.
Neil_Stevens says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:42 pm

Following up since we took the chat to IM,

It occurred to me that a good example here is Buster on Mythbusters. They go to greath lengths at times to give Buster bones, pressure sensors, and whatever it takes to make realistic tests of the effects of myths on people.

But no matter what, it’s never the same. No matter what material they use, foam or ballistics gel or whatnot, it’s always unlike the real thing.

Same is true here.

And even though it is true that for the purpose of testing, an anatomically correct dummy is equivalent to a cadaver, the ability to create a truly anatomically correct dummy, right down to the physical properties of tissue, is just beyond our means.
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:44 pm

Yes, but isn’t a cadaver equal to a dummy? The tissue is decaying, which means it tears faster than living flesh. The bone marrow isn’t living, which also creates a problem with the bone matter. So, if we have the option of using a dummy or a cadaver, what is the difference, truly?
Neil_Stevens says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:45 pm

To tell the truth, I don’t know if a decaying cadaver is more realistic in simulating a living person than the finest in crash test dummy technology.

But I think these experts are saying it is.

They may be wrong. But I can’t imagine they’re doing this out of malice.
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:47 pm

No, I don’t either, but I wonder if it may be out of greed? Is a human cadaver cheaper than a well made anatomically correct dummy?
Neil_Stevens says:

May 29, 2009 at 4:47 pm

That would definitely be a point to research if you wanted to make an issue of it.
Mikethemasterdater says:

May 29, 2009 at 7:11 pm

There is a really good book on the subject called “Stiff” I guess in the past they used to use pig carcases but it didn’t really work well. Cadavers worked beautifully and there has never been an effective substitue. I would be fine knowing I saved a few lives this way. As far as I know there are even worse things done to cadavers, this is probably why they will never disclose to the public what happens after the fact.

Mikethemasterdater’s last blog post..The most powerful (frightening) form of power balance in a relationship 5 of 5
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 8:26 pm

That is a great book. I listened to the abridged version on CD on a long car trip one time. It does lead to another discussion, as well, though. Should people be informed of all the possibilities for their body prior to them signing a release or should it be left purposefully vague? Good thoughts here, Mike. I like the brainstorming here with you and Neil.
Natalie says:

May 29, 2009 at 9:09 pm

I don’t know, Jill. For a less objective and slightly incoherent, sleep-deprived point of view, I would be okay with my dead body used like this, but not my children’s bodies.

Natalie’s last blog post..the long weekend
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 9:13 pm

So, it’s different for the person giving their body than it is for the loved ones? Interesting perspective. Makes sense.
Elizabeth says:

May 29, 2009 at 11:52 pm

I agree with what most everybody else says. There are corpses that are most likely not much use for testing or transplants. One point is, a person donates their body to help other people in regards to disease or transplants.

If an elderly person dies of natural causes, most of the parts are useless, we know the elderly person died of old age, and a one hundred year old heart isn’t much use for a heart transplant. I’m sure if they knew they just saved a million people in car accidents, they would be happy.

Elizabeth’s last blog post..How to make extra with Google Adsense
Jillian says:

May 29, 2009 at 11:54 pm

That’s a good point, too. Then it comes down to viability of who they are testing for, as well. I wonder if they test bodies of varying ages? I’m sure they do.
Leon aka Husband says:

May 31, 2009 at 4:54 pm

Yeah, I would have no problem with that. Lots of people die in car crashes; more than many kinds of diseases. Helping to prevent car crash deaths is no less important than preventing many kinds of disease. Plus, as Neil notes upthread, a lot of time they are just going to otherwise be used as practice for med students. That’s necessary as well, but still is probably not what most people had in mind when they made the decision to donate.
Blueshelled » Blog Archive » Lifegem jewelry: Because your loved ones can still give even when they’re dead says:

June 7, 2009 at 11:47 pm

[...] there was a fantastic discussion on my blog about what happens to cadavers when they are donated to science. Many ethical questions were explored and I’m still bouncing [...]

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